Dr. Stan Tatkin on Co-Dependency Versus Inter-Dependency (as well as other aspects of relationships)
What exactly is the difference between co-dependency and interdependency?
This is a question that comes up a lot for folks who are familiar with the idea of co-dependency. Many of us have an idea that we are supposed to "love ourselves before we can love others" and "be the source of our own happiness." We may feel that if this is not happening that we are being "dysfunctional" or "co-dependent." One of the interesting things to me about the re-focus on attachment research in the past decade of psychology has been the re-realization that humans are inherently dependent on others. We are born some of the most vulnerable babies of all species, requiring a full decade if not more of intensive parental involvement. Our brains do not actually finish maturing until halfway through our second decade of life. We have always, and continue to, live in groups or "packs". We use solitary confinement as the worst punishment for the worst humans. So how many of us got this idea that depending on others was bad or pathological seems curious indeed.
I recently encountered a podcast with Dr. Stan Tatkin, a prominent couples therapist and author who utilizes attachment theory as a foundation of his work. Among other things in this interview Dr. Tatkin shows how his model is representative of healthy interdependency versus the pathological idea of co-dependency. It would take several pages for me to summarize his theory on this point and he does a perfectly fine job on his own. So for those reasons rather than try to explain his viewpoint to you I suggest that you listen yourself:
He gets to the topic of codependency around 20 minutes in to the podcast. While you are there you may want to check out other topics in this podcast which specializes on relationships. The podcaster has many excellent guests on his shows and seems to cover a lot of important ground.
And if you are interested in learning more about healthy relationships, as always I also recommend Dr. Tatkin's audio program, Your Brain On Love, as well as his books, Wired For Love and Wired For Dating.
Wishing you happiness in your connections,
A thought occurred to me the other day in the midst of counseling a couple. One of them had recently adopted a dog from the animal shelter. She was talking about the history of the dog and why it had certain habits and fears. To all of us in the room it went without saying that since the dog had been mistreated by it's previous owners it came with "issues". I think many of us have had those experiences, like raising your hand to pet a dog and watching it flinch or cower. Our first thought in that situation is "oh dear, I bet this dog has been abused!". We generally don't get mad at the dog for misunderstanding us. Nor do we expect the dog to know that we are not the same person who previously hurt them. We are generally concerned and patient and understand it will take the dog time to trust us. We also would not be surprised if a dog trainer told us that there were some things we could do on our part to not create fear in the dog.
So while all of this is usually pretty obvious to humans in regards to dogs, the corollary to understanding our relationship partners is sadly not all that intuitive. We are often upset to find that our partners, who had previous "owners" (parents/caregivers) have baggage and a host of unconscious expectations that cause them to misunderstand us and sometimes act in ways that don't make sense. By the way, they are seeing the same behaviors in us! It's as if one dog from the pound (with their own history of having been neglected or hurt in the past) adopts another dog from the pound (with their own history also). You can imagine the problems that ensue.
If you have read my blog posts or website you may know that I practice a particular style of couples therapy-- PACT. In that style of therapy we find it useful to look for certain patterns of behavior that arise from particular histories of interactions with our early caregivers. These patterns are called "attachment styles". There are two basic styles that represent the majority of us who end up having relationship problems-- "Avoidant" (which Dr. Stan Tatkin calls "Islands") and "Resistant" (which Dr. Tatkin calls "Waves"). These two predominant patterns can be described in terms of types of dogs you may encounter at your local pound.
The "Avoidant" or "Island" type of partner is like the dog at the pound who, when you approach the cage smiling and holding out a treat, backs up and hopes you will go away. You may feel hurt or rejected, even annoyed. You may think to yourself "hey, I'm the good guy here!", "c'mon buddy, give me a chance!" If you are patient and give the dog a little space in time he or she will likely relax and may even show some interest. If you open the cage and again give the dog space it will, in it's own time, come out. But don't expect this type of dog to jump into your arms in the first few minutes! He or she will need to move past you and walk around a bit, making sure that you do not represent any danger or infringement on their free will. Once the dog has established that you are OK letting it walk about freely it will likely approach you, in it's own time, and perhaps make a gesture of interest. If you move too quickly or with too much enthusiasm this type of dog will back away and then you are back to square one for a bit.
If you try to imagine what kind of history this dog has it's not hard to conjure: This dog was neglected. It had the kind of owner who put out food and water but did not show the dog much affection. The dog is not used to being engaged or approached much. When this owner did approach the dog it was likely for the dog to do something for the owner rather than the owner doing something for the dog. Perhaps it was an older dog who was too tired to run much, but the only time the owner came to it was to drag it out for a run because that's what the owner wanted to do. The owner missed the cues from the poor dog that this was only fun for the human! The owner simply threw a leash on the dog and dragged it around the block, perhaps even chastising the dog for going to slow. Then upon returning home the dog is put back into it's corner and ignored again. This dog will come to see his owner as a task-master who is only really interested in him or herself. The dog will be mistrustful of approach because it only means that the dog is now expected to do something that the dog may have no interest in. The dog has learned that the owner is not sensitive to it's needs or wants and most of the time leaves it alone. So the dog learns to entertain itself and gets pretty good at this. It can stare out the window and watch birds or run around alone in the back yard chasing squirrels. But the dog does not expect the owner to partake of these activities or show any interest in what the dog is doing. In fact, the dog comes to prefer not being noticed by the owner because the owner is only interested in their own needs and the dog finds that unpleasant and unfair.
Notice that this dog is not necessarily abused. It's just emotionally neglected. Therefore when you show a lot of enthusiasm and rush forward to give it a big hug at the pound this dog is not comfortable with that. It will try to avoid that kind of effusive contact and get more space from you. In time, if you are patient, it may become more comfortable with you and the dog may even come to enjoy a certain amount of attention. But it may also never be the kind of dog that you can scoop up and hug and smooch all over. The dog has baggage.
Now compare that to a different kind of pound pooch. This dog has been intermittently abused and praised by its owner. Confusing, right? This owner was a bit moody and wrapped up in their own dramas. On a good day they would lavish the dog with treats and hugs and then on bad days might yell at the dog or even give it a kick. The dog was not able to know from day to day what was coming. So the dog also learns to be guarded. Only when you approach this dog at the pound they don't necessarily want you to go away. Part of them is thinking "well, this could be good...you may have a treat for me". But the other part of the poor dog is thinking "yeah, but this could be bad!". So the dog may approach but with ears back and a slightly open jaw, ready to bite if things turn ugly. When you see the dog approaching you in this way you might think "geez! Here I am trying to be nice and it looks as if you may bite me!" This type of dog may even approach you and growl, only to then lick your outstretched hand. Their behavior is likely to be a confusing mix of pleasure at your attention and fear and even anger at what they perceive is potential backlash. Even more confusing is that this dog, right after growling at you, will likely follow you into the next room. The dog does not seem to want to be alone, even though half the time when you try to engage it the dog may snarl or bark at you! And even more frustrating this dog may tear up your furniture in protest if you leave it alone for too long. This dog is certainly a confusing fellow! But, if treated with love and patience, this dog will eventually growl less and lick more. However it may always be quick to curl it's lip and look like it's about to bite. It's up to you to know how to help the dog feel safe and loved and to not take it too personally when the dog seems scared or testy. This dog would, if it were human, correspond to the attachment type of "Resistant" or in Tatkin's terms, a "Wave." This dog too has baggage.
When we meet our life partners they are not newly birthed puppies. They are middle-aged dogs with histories of having been, much of the time, mistreated in some way or another by someone in their formative years. It may not have been out and out abuse (although that is certainly possible), it may have been mild emotional neglect or moderate mis-attunement or confusion behaviors from distressed or overwhelmed parents. Whatever the case, they have baggage (as do we!). We need to come to expect this and not take it personally. We need to try to learn about our partner's histories and figure out how we can offer corrective experiences that will, over time and with patience, reduce their problematic behaviors. And we need to be reasonable about our expectations, knowing that while you can teach old dogs new tricks, you may have to use some pretty persuasive treats and even engage your friendly (PACT certified!) "dog trainer".
Wishing you the best in your loving connections (both human canine),
You hear a lot of talk about boundaries. These mysterious dividing lines between ourselves and others that somehow, if properly maintained, keep us and our relationships healthy. But what are boundaries really? And how can one measure them? How do you know when they are "right"?
There is a great little book that a former supervisor introduced me to many years ago as a young clinician. It's How to Be and Adult by David Richo. This slim volume, only 122 pages, tells the straight story of what interferes with our ability to mature into well-grounded and autonomous humans. The chapter on boundaries is particularly useful. Richo says "Your personal boundaries protect the inner core of your identity and your right to choices". In other words, when you are not maintaining appropriate boundaries you start to lose who you truly are and your ability to feel that you have choices. This does not enhance relationships but instead breeds resentment as we feel ourselves losing ourselves and losing the sense of having options. We begin to feel manipulated by people and situations and naturally respond on some level, conscious or unconscious, with anger or despair.
It brings to mind the old adage "good fences make good neighbors". Any of you who have read my blogs or worked with me knows that I am passionate about connection. I am not the sort of person who feels that we need to learn to be alone. I truly believe that humans are designed to be interconnected. But that does not mean a lack of boundaries. In fact, not having good boundaries is putting your relationships at risk.
Conversely people who have good boundaries have a sense of mutuality that comes from appreciating that both people in the relationship have needs and that truly loving someone is honoring what is best from them while not sacrificing what is also best for yourself. As Richo says, they are able to "be in-touch and intact". When this process runs afoul you often see people trying to control or manipulate each other, or feeling that they must subjugate themselves to the needs of the other despite feeling over-run. When you "don't let go of what doesn't work" and it feels like "[you] can't let go of what could work" your boundaries are out of balance. "Co-dependency is unconditional love for someone else that has turned against the self". (Richo)
Rico's book contains a clever list of symptoms of good versus not-so-good boundaries. I am not going to quote all of them here but have selected a few that I think are especially salient:
Not Enough Boundaries Healthy Boundaries
You feel unclear about your preferences You feel clear on preferences and act on that
You are so focused on surviving that you You recognize when you are happy/unhappy
often don't know how you are feeling
You do more and more for less and less You do more when/if that gets you more
You are satisfied if you are coping/surviving You are only satisfied if you are thriving
You let other people's minimal improvement You are encouraged by sincere and ongoing improvement
maintain your stalemate
You act out of compliance and compromise You act out of agreement and negotiation
You are enmeshed in a drama and it feels like You are always aware of your choices and feel free to act
you have no control over how it unfolds based on them
Healthy boundaries, like most relationship skills, are passed down from parents to their children. Many of us did not get blessed with the lessons of good boundaries. We either over-restrict and fail to allow others into our inner lives, fearing their influence and potential loss of autonomy, or we have permeable boundaries that fail to keep our authentic self safe and are too yielding to the needs of others.
Therapy is a great way to work on boundaries and, like most skills in life (driving a car, baking a cake, etc.) they can be learned. If you notice that your boundaries could use some help I hope you consider therapy. I have seen it help many people lead happier, more comfortable and more fulfilled lives.
"Grief does not change you. It reveals you."
~ John Green
In my work as a therapist I can honestly say that it is never to late to grieve a loss. I have seen many people who start off thinking that "there's no point in getting into that, it was so long ago" or "I should be over this by now". But with support and encouragement these people have been able to do the important work of uncovering unprocessed grief that they have carried around for many years. And the results are remarkable. Letting go of grief can bring about profound changes in energy level, mood, openness to new relationships and even forgiveness of one's self and others.
If you are carrying around unresolved grief, no matter what kind or how old it is, I invite you to think about starting to process that loss.
The following post has been excerpt from a blog by Alexandra Katehakis & Tom Bliss. Many thanks for their words of wisdom on letting go.
No one knows the hurt of heartbreak until they've experienced it. The gnashing pain of saying "good-bye" to a lover--when we know the relationship isn't working, when we have to leave in order to grow into our potential, when we've been so terribly betrayed that we can't hold a vision for healing, or when someone dies--is beyond comprehension until we live through it. Loss is so devastating that many people hold onto pain, resentment, or anger as a perverse way to stay in relationship with the one we've said "good-bye" to. Sometimes it even feels righteous to stay in anger, hurt, or upset--almost as though we can right the wrong if we dig in our heels. Yet over time, this stance leaves us embittered and stuck, hanging on for dear life so as not to feel the awful feelings of sorrow. Worse, that mental clinging precludes our moving on.
Grief, on the other hand, is an essential step in our progress forward. Grieving requires the ego and the recriminations to get out of the way so that we can become vulnerable and fully feel the loss of what once was. Without the full-bodied sensation of our grief and loss, we can never get past them. Letting go and grieving is a cleansing and healing process for all: we tear open our emotional prison and energetically release ourselves, and our former beloved, to move on.
DAILY HEALTHY ACTS
· If you're holding on to an old wound and haven't let yourself feel the loss, take time today to write about what keeps
· Free yourself for a good cry over your primary losses.
· Have a small ceremony to commemorate the anniversary of the loss of a loved one, whether it was a relational loss or literal loss. Light a candle in his or her name to free them, throw a rock into the ocean to symbolize an aspect of the relationship that needs to be let go, or plant some flowers so that your grief can blossom into something new.
By now many of us have heard about the idea of attachment in infancy. There is a strong movement for attachment-informed parenting which promotes consideration of attachment research in child-rearing practices. Since we now know that attachment style in infancy has long-reaching implications most psychologists advocate that parents familiarize themselves with this information as they shape their own parenting behaviors and family culture. And there is good reason to consider attachment! Securely attached infants are observed to be more resilient, tolerate stress better, explore their environment more, settle more easily and derive more comfort from their caregivers.
As they mature they tend to be preferred by peers and into adulthood suffer less psychological problems such as depression, substance abuse and even divorce. We now know that secure attachment in childhood provides a significant advantage in one's adult life. According to work by Feeney, Noller, & Callan (1994), securely attached adults are more satisfied in their relationships than insecurely attached folks. Their relationships have more trust, last longer, involve more mutual and satisfying interdependence, show more commitment and even involve using their partners more as companions in their exploration of the world (Fraley & Davis, 1997). Think of that lovely older couple who retires and travels the world together, exploring new and exciting cultures and growing together rather than apart.
Not only are securely attached adults more likely to get support from their partners when distressed, they are more likely to give support to their distressed partners (Simpson et al, 1992). Their relationships are truly reciprocal, fair and interdependent. And as if that's not enough reason to promote secure attachment for relationship health, these secure partners even view and interpret the behavior of their partners during and after conflict in ways that reduce negative feelings. For example, if my partner and I are arguing about where we will spend Christmas this year, when he brings up how uncomfortable he is around my chaotic family I would be more likely to hear this as a gentle reminder of previous years where we both were frustrated with my family dynamic rather than hearing "I hate your family and how insensitive you are to make suffer by forcing me to see them". Thus it's not only the behaviors that secure partners emit that make the relationship so secure, it's how the secure partner does not project negativity into their partner's statements even when the conversation gets heated. One can see how this generous style of interpreting communication, where the best rather than the worst is assumed, can smooth over many potentially combustible situations.
So what are our chances of reaching adulthood with secure attachment? Most research puts secure attachment rates at about 50% in infants/toddlers. Attachment systems are thought to be somewhat malleable until the age of 13 and can even change after that if a large enough stressor is applied (abuse/neglect, severe trauma, etc). Fortunately for those of us who did not achieve secure attachment in childhood there is still hope! The concept of earned security has been investigated over the past few decades and results indicate that even people who had insecure attachment in childhood can learn secure patterns by adulthood. According to Dan Siegel, MD, this "Earned secure/autonomous status is most often achieved through supportive personal or therapeutic relationships (for example, marriage or psychotherapy). The implication of these findings is that even with difficult past childhood experiences, the mind is capable of achieving an integrated perspective – one that is coherent and that permits parenting" (and I would argue partnering) "behavior to be sensitive and empathic. If integration is achieved, the trend toward transmission of insecure forms of attachment to the next generation can be prevented. Achieving coherence of mind thus becomes a central goal for creating emotional well-being in both oneself", one's marriage and "one’s offspring."
If you or your spouse had a difficult childhood or find it hard to maintain satisfying intimate relationships you may have an insecure attachment style. Therapy can help you to learn the skills necessary to model secure behaviors, thus allowing you to reap the benefits of security mentioned in the research above.
Thanks to our amazing brains we can overcome where we have come from. The rewards are tremendous and I encourage you to consider taking the journey.
What do we require of our mothers? Certainly not perfection. All mothers would fail at that. Dr. Donald Winnicott, a well-known psychoanalyst from decades past, used to say what we need from mothers is for them to be "good enough". What does "good enough" mean? Attachment researchers look for 3 qualities in "good enough" mothers: sensitivity -- being able to notice that an infant is distressed, responding quickly to the infant's signs of distress, and responding well enough that most of the time the infants get relief.
Keeping that in mind we could hardly find a worse type of mother than someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, 5the Edition (used by psychologists and psychiatrists to diagnose mental illnesses) defines Narcissistic Personality Disorder as:
A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:
1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal
may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting is based on gaining approval from others; personal standards are unreasonably high in
order to see oneself as exceptional, or too low based on a sense of entitlement; often unaware of own motivations.
2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Impaired ability to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others; excessively attuned to
reactions of others, but only if perceived as relevant to self; over- or underestimate of own effect on others.
b. Intimacy: Relationships largely superficial and exist to serve self-esteem regulation; mutuality constrained by little
genuine interest in others‟ experiences and predominance of a need for personal gain
B. Pathological personality traits in the following domain:
1. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Grandiosity: Feelings of entitlement, either overt or covert; self-centeredness; firmly holding to the belief that one is
better than others; condescending toward others.
b. Attention seeking: Excessive attempts to attract and be the focus of the attention of others; admiration seeking.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).
**Please remember that this blog is not intended to diagnose anyone. If you have questions about diagnosis seek the counsel of a licensed mental health professional**
Now, given those criteria, you may be saying to yourself "wow, a lot of that sounds familiar!". Mothers who are highly narcissistic tend to see their children not as independent little people but rather as extensions of themselves. For this reason they are often very preoccupied with how the child looks, dresses, is seen by others, etc. Narcissistic mothers get upset if they feel that their child is in any way "reflecting badly" upon them, precisely because they do not differentiate between themselves and their children. They often use the talents, successes or qualities of their children for self-aggrandizement. Or sometimes the inverse-- they refuse to share the spotlight with their own child and will put them down or undermine them to ensure that they are the only "star" in the family.
Narcissists, underneath all of their inflation and grandiosity, are terribly insecure. If they ever feel devalued, belittled or exposed they may fly into a narcissistic rage, attacking anyone and everyone who does not support the version of themselves that the narcissist wants everyone to see.
Narcissistic mothers are incapable of helping children cultivate their authentic selves. If your authentic self loves playing in the mud your narcissistic mother may forbid you do do so but rather dress you in pretentious clothing and parade you around like a prize dog. If your authentic self wants to grow up and be a writer your narcissistic mother may chastise you and shame you into deciding you want to be a doctor or a lawyer (or whatever she thinks is appropriate). Children of narcissistic parents often have trouble finding their authentic selves even in adulthood because they learned long ago not to listen to what they really wanted or felt inside and rather learned to perform a role to keep their mother happy and engaged.
Narcissistic mothers may shun the less glamorous and more private aspects of parenting like bathing, cuddling, feeding or simply spending time with their children. They may use nannies, babysitters or other types of childcare so that they do not have to "waste their time" with these daily acts of devotion and nurturance. On the other hand the narcissistic mother may take extensive interest in things like dance classes, music lessons, athletic competitions or academic endeavors as they bring her a sense of self-aggrandizement by identification with the child's successes.
The important thing to know if you grew up with a narcissistic mother is that you CAN heal from this. Therapists are excellent at providing the type of attunement and nurturing that was missed by having this type of mother.
You may find this list of qualities of narcissistic mothers helpful:
21 signs of a narcissistic mother taken from Alexander Burgermeester's website
References for more information about Narcissism:
And now that you know what a healthy relationship looks like, you can evaluate for yourself how well these people are doing: http://valentine.thisamericanlife.org. This is a collection of short personal stories about love and heartbreak, things we can all relate to.
Krista Jordan, Ph.D.
Dr. Jordan has been in private practice for 20 years in Texas. She is passionate about helping people to overcome hurts and obstacles from their past to find more happiness and health in their current lives.